The Place Bet: My Favorite Bet on the Table
Y You can make a Place bet on any of the point numbers, which are the 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10. As with most other bets on the table, the Place bet plays against the 7. Therefore, once you make a Place bet, the only numbers that mean anything in terms of winning or losing are the number you bet on and the 7. After making a Place bet, the outcome of each roll is either: 1) the Place number appears and you win; 2) a 7 appears and you lose; or 3) any other number appears, which means nothing in terms of winning or losing.
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You can make or take down the Place bet any time you want, which is why it’s called a “standing” bet (i.e., it “stands” and works until you take it down or it loses). The common rule among almost all casinos is that the Place bet is automatically considered “off” (i.e., not working) on the come-out roll of a new game. However, if you want it to remain “on” and working on the come-out, simply tell the dealer and he’ll put a little button labeled “ON” on top of your chips to indicate to the crew and camera that your bet is still working. After the come-out roll, the button is no longer needed so the dealer removes it from your chips and your Place bet remains on and working until it wins or loses, or until you turn it off again. NOTE: “Taking down” your Place bet is the same as “turning off” the bet.
The house advantage for Place bets is relatively low, which makes it one of the better bets on the table (we discuss good versus bad bets in another article). The table below shows how the casino odds (or payoff odds) compare to the Place bet’s true odds. If you need to review our other article about basic craps math, now is a good time to do it. For example, if you don’t understand why the numbers are paired, ten you should go back and review the basic craps math.
The Casino’s Place Odds versus True Odds
| Number Pairings | Place Odds (Payoff Odds) | True Odds |
|---|---|---|
| 4 and 10 | 9:5 | 2:1 (or 10:5) |
| 5 and 9 | 7:5 (or 14:10) | 3:2 (or 15:10) |
| 6 and 8 | 7:6 (or 35:30) | 6:5 (or 36:30) |
Because odds are like fractions, I adjusted all of the odds except the 9:5 odds on the 4 and 10 to equivalent odds so you can easily compare them to the true odds. This gives you a better idea of how small the house advantage is for these bets. For example, you can see from the table above if you Place bet the 6 for $30 and win, your payoff is $35 compared to the true-odds payoff of $36, which makes the house advantage only 1.52%. With a big $30 bet, that’s only $1 less than what we’d expect to be paid for true odds in an unbiased game that doesn’t have any house advantage. What this tells us is that the Place bet on the 6 or 8 is one of the smartest bets on the craps table (i.e., by “smart,” I mean it has one of the lowest house advantages of all craps bets).
We see from the table above that the Place odds for the 5 and 9 aren’t quite good as those for the 6 and 8. For a winning $10 Place bet on the 5 or 9, we win $14 compared to the $15 we’d expect to win if there were no house advantage. The Place odds for the 4 and 10 aren’t as good as those for the 5 and 9. For a winning $5 Place bet on the 4 or 10, we win $9 compared to the $10 we’d expect to win if there were no house advantage. Therefore, based solely on house advantage, it’s clear that the “smartest” Place bets are on the 6 and 8, the second best are on the 5 and 9, and the third best are on the 4 and 10.
Tip
By visiting CrapsPit, I hope you learn how to play craps, by studying the Craps Rules before you venture off to Play Craps Online. Here we also offer a free craps game, great to practice placing bets.The hardest thing about making Place bets is remembering the multiples that you need to bet for each pairing and the payout when you win (review our other article about basic craps math to learn about the “pairings”). The bet multiple depends on the Place odds. Let’s look at the pairing 4 and 10, which has Place odds of 9:5. That means, for every $5 you bet and win, you win $9. Therefore, the bet multiple for the 4 and 10 Place bets is $5. For example, suppose the table minimum is $15 (i.e., it’s a lofty $15 because you’re on the Vegas Strip where’s it’s hard to find a cheaper table nowadays).
Let’s see if you’re paying attention. Answer the following three questions.
1. In this example, what’s the minimum Place bet you can make on the 4?
2. Suppose you have $23 in chips remaining. Your wife is nagging you to go to the lounge for drinks and dancing, so you decide to blow it on a Place 4 bet. What’s the maximum Place bet on the 4 you should make with your remaining $23?
3. If you make the maximum Place bet amount in question #2 and you win, how much do you win?
Let’s look at the answers. If you didn’t get question #1 correct, then put your beer down and pay better attention. The answer is $15. The bet multiple for the 4 and 10 is $5, and I said that the table minimum is $15. Since $15 is the table minimum, and since $15 is multiple of $5, the minimum Place bet on the 4 is $15 in this example.
Question #2 requires a bit more thinking. The answer is $20. The bet multiple is $5, so the biggest $5 multiple you can squeeze out of your remaining $23 is $20.
Question #3 is even trickier. The answer is $36. Very good! I knew you’d get the correct answer! The Place odds for the 4 are 9:5, which means for every $5 you bet and win, you win $9. If you make a $20 Place bet on the 4 and win, just do some quick and easy math in your head to figure it out. Remember, the odds are 9:5. So, divide your $20 bet by 5 = 4, and then multiply the 4 by 9 = $36.
Let’s do another quick example to ensure you understand the math. Suppose you make a $10 Place bet on the 4. The shooter rolls a 4 on the very next roll and you win. How much do you win? Yes, $18, very good! Do the math. Think about the odds, so think 9:5. Divide your $10 bet by 5 = 2, and then multiply the 2 by 9 = $18.
The pairing 5 and 9 has Place odds of 7:5, which means for every $5 you bet and win, you win $7. Therefore, the bet multiple for Place betting the 5 and 9 is $5.
The pairing 6 and 8 has Place odds of 7:6, which means for every $6 you bet and win, you win $7. Therefore, the bet multiple for Place betting the 6 and 8 is $6. Let’s do one more example of how to calculate your winnings. Suppose you make an $18 Place bet on the 8. Remember, the bet multiple is $6, and for every $6 you bet and win, you win $7. Therefore, divide your $18 bet by 6 = 3, and then multiply the 3 by $7 = $21. So, for a winning $18 Place bet on the 8, you win $21.
I know, I know, you don’t want to have to think. You had a long day at work and you just want to get a glass of wine and bag of chips, plop down in your computer chair, login to your favorite online casino (such as the Sun Palace), and play a few games of craps until your favorite TV show comes on. That’s okay if you’re playing online at a cheap $1 table and you don’t care about losing $5 for the night. But you might want to reconsider if you’re going on vacation to Vegas and buying-in for $100 at each session. I strongly suggest, if you’re going to play for “big” money at a live table, then you should learn the Place odds for each pairing, learn the bet multiples for each pairing, and learn to quickly calculate in your head the winning payouts. It’s all just part of being a smart player. Smart players are the ones who walk away winners (ka-ching!). Besides, when you’re at a live table in Vegas pretending to be James Bond trying to impress the Victoria’s Secret model next to you, you don’t want to look like a newbie by asking the dealer, “Um, pardon me, how much should I put on the 6?”
As noted above, you can make or take down Place bets any time you want. You can even make them before a new game has started but most dealers would rather you wait until after the come-out roll when the shooter has established a point. You can make a Place bet on as many of the numbers that you want. When the table is hot, it’s common to see several players have all six point numbers “covered” with Place bets, including the point.
Most of the time, you need the dealer’s help to make a Place bet (i.e., generally, it’s not a self-service bet). Simply put your chips in the Come box in front of you and tell the dealer to Place whatever number(s) you want. The dealer then moves your chips to the appropriate location on the layout, which we’ll discuss in a moment. The only time you can make a Place bet by yourself without the dealer’s help is when you Place the point, which is uncommon because most people have the point number covered with a Pass Line bet. Most of the time when someone Place bets the point, it’s when they walk up to the table in the middle of a game and, instead of making Put bet on the Pass Line, they Place the point by positioning their chips centered on top of the back line of the Pass Line. I never use this approach because I always want my chips physically located in the box for the number I’m Place betting. If you use this approach, be careful to maintain the chips’ position directly on top of that line. The chips tend to creep out of position for various reasons, such as they get hit by the dice from people at the other end of the table rolling towards your end. If your chips are moved out of position and behind the line, then the crew and camera might think they’re an Odds bet on the Pass Line. If they creep all the way inside into the Pass Line area, then the crew might think they’re a Flat Pass line bet. That’s why I never use this approach; I don’t want to have to worry about keeping my chips perfectly on top of that back line. Refer to the figure below and see that Player Position #8 has a $5 Place bet on the point, which we know is 4 because of the white ON puck. Notice how their chip is centered perfectly on top of the back line of the Pass Line.
Except when you Place bet the point as described above, the dealer moves all players’ chips to the appropriate positions in the point boxes. Notice in the figure below that each point number has four boxes associated with it, which are three smaller rectangles and one bigger square with a number in it. For now, let’s only talk about the two smaller rectangles on the top and bottom sides of the big square with the number in it. These two rectangles are where the dealer positions all players’ Place bets. When the table is hot, those two rectangles are covered with chips that look like a chaotic confusing mess, but it’s actually very organized. Each player’s chips are positioned in these rectangles according to their player position around the table. Refer to the figure below for Player Positions and examples of their Place bets.
Player #1 has Place bets on the 9 and 10. We know this because Player #1’s chip position for Place bets is in the bottom rectangle all the way to the left (refer to the 4 point box and see the little circle labeled “1” all the way to the left of the rectangle). If we look at each point box, we find that the 9 and 10 are the only numbers that have chips in the bottom rectangle all the way to the left.
Player #2 has Place bets on 6 and 8.
Player #3 has Place bets on the 5 and 8.
Player #4 has Place bets on the 5 and 10.
Player #5 has Place bets on the 5, 6, and 8.
Player #6 has no Place bets (there are no chips in the #6 position in any of the top rectangles).
Player #7 has a Place bet on the 9.
Now, let’s see if you’re paying attention. We didn’t mention Player #8. Does Player #8 have any Place bets? Very good! We did, indeed, mention Player #8 earlier when learning how to make a Place bet on the point. Player #8 has a Place bet on the 4, which is the point. Notice how Player #8’s Place bet (i.e., the $5 chip) is positioned on the back line of the Pass Line.
The following Do’s and Don’ts describe more information for how to make a Place bet.
DON’T make any bets when the stickman is about to push the dice to the shooter for the next roll. Instead, make them while the stickman controls the dice in the middle of the table.
DO wait until you have the dealer’s attention before putting your chips on the table. If the dealer is busy paying or arranging other bets, don’t put any chips on the table until you have his attention. Except for self-service bets, never put chips on the table without the dealer knowing they’re yours.
DON’T throw or toss your Place-bet chips on the table because they’ll likely bounce and mess up all the neatly stacked and positioned chips on the layout.
DO put your chips in the Come box and tell the dealer what you want, such as, “Place the eight, please.” Saying “please” is always a nice touch. Some dealers have specific spots where they prefer you to put your chips, depending on your position at the table. For example, if you stand next to the dealer, he may prefer you to put your chips in the apron directly in front of you instead of in the Come box. If you put your Place‑bet chips in the Come box and the dealer doesn’t say anything, then you should assume that’s where he wants you to put your chips for subsequent Place bets. Otherwise, he’ll say something like, “Sir, please put your chips here in the apron.”
After your Place bet wins, you can choose to take it down (i.e., remove it) or leave it up (i.e., working) and hope to hit your Place number again before a 7 shows. If you leave your Place bet up, you win every time the shooter rolls that number before a 7 appears, but you lose when the dreaded 7 shows. You can also increase or decrease the size of your Place bet at any time.
If you win, be prepared to tell the dealer what you want to do next. The method for paying off winning bets may appear at first to be entirely random, but it’s not. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. The dealer pays off bets and players according to a strict sequence. He pays all Pass Line bets first, then all Come bets, and then all Place bets. The player next to the stickman is always paid first (Player Position #1), and then the payoffs go around the table to the last player standing next to the dealer (Player Position #8). For example, suppose three players each have a Come bet and a Place bet on the number 5. Suppose Joe stands next to the stickman (Player Position #1), Jill stands at the end of the table along the corner (Player Position #5), and Jack stands next to the dealer (Player Position #8). The shooter rolls a 5 and everyone jumps for joy. The dealer first pays Joe’s Come bet, then Jill’s Come bet, and then Jack’s Come bet (in that order). The dealer then pays Joe’s Place bet, then Jill’s Place bet, and finally Jack’s Place bet (in that order). So, be aware of when your bets will be paid. As the dealer pays bets in front of you and it’s almost your turn to be paid, lean a little into the dealer and tell him what you want to do, such as, “Same bet,” or “Press it,” or “Take my five down.” That way, the dealer can execute the payoffs quickly and under control. When your bets hit, don’t scream with joy at the dealer telling him what you want to do with your bet the instant a number shows. The dealer must strictly adhere to the payoff sequence, so if you’re the last one to get paid, he might not remember what you screamed at him.
Some dealers are taught if a player doesn’t say anything, the silence indicates that the player wants to make the same bet (i.e., “same bet” means the player wants the dealer to pay the winnings, and keep the same Place bet amount up and working). To ensure the dealer knows exactly what I want, I always say, “Same bet, please.” Some dealers are sensitive (why, I don’t know) and respond, “Sir, if you just don’t say anything, I’ll know you want the same bet.” I usually politely reply with something like, “Most dealers aren’t as good as you, so I’m in the habit of saying same bet.” That way, I can continue saying, “Same bet, please,” and joke it off without irritating the dealer.
As noted, you can make, remove, increase, or decrease a Place bet at any time. You have two options for removing a Place bet: 1) Take it down, or 2) Turn it off, as described in the following.
When “taking down” a Place bet, you remove it completely from the table. The dealer removes your Place-bet chips from the point box and puts them in the apron in front of you. Don’t forget to pick them up and put them in your chip stack. Use this approach when you no longer want action on a particular number for the rest of the game.
When “turning off” a Place bet, you turn it off (i.e., make it not working) temporarily with the intent to turn it back on after one or more rolls. Instead of removing your chips, the dealer places an OFF button on top of them. The button shows the boxman and the camera that your Place bet isn’t working for as long as the button is on top of your chips. The dealer leaves the OFF button on your chips until you tell him you want the bet working again. This approach saves the dealer from having to remove and replace chips from the table for players who like to turn their Place bets off and on a lot.
If you have a Place bet and the shooter makes her point to end the game, your Place bet is automatically off on the come-out roll for the next new game. The reason is because when a game ends, a come-out roll for a new game is about to occur and, as we know from our article on the Pass Line, a 7 on the come-out roll is a winner for the Pass Line. So, on the come-out, everyone is rooting for a 7 to show so they can win their Flat Pass Line bets. But if everyone’s Place bets were on and working on the come-out, a 7 would mean all those Place bets lose. Since everyone roots for a 7 to show on the come-out for Pass Line bets, the casino automatically turns off all the Place bets for the come-out roll. As soon as the come-out roll is made, the casino then automatically turns on all Place bets so they’re all working again. However, you can keep your Place bet on at any time, even on the come-out roll. Simply tell the dealer, “My five is working on the come-out.” The dealer then places an ON button on top of your Place bet to show the boxman and camera that your Place bet is working on the come‑out. After the come-out roll, the dealer then removes the ON button since the bet is then automatically understood to be on (i.e., working) after the come-out.
Depending on the point, Place numbers are considered either “inside” or “outside.” Generally, for Place bets, the 4, 5, 9, and 10 are considered outside numbers. The 5, 6, 8, and 9 are considered inside numbers. You think, “What? He just said the 5 and 9 are considered outside, and then he said they’re considered inside. So, which are they, inside or outside?”
The 5 and 9 may, indeed, be considered either inside or outside, depending on the circumstances. For example, suppose the point is 4 and you want Place bets on the 5, 6, 8, and 9. Simply put $22 in the Come box and tell the dealer, “Twenty-two dollars inside, please.” The dealer knows that you want $5 on the 5, $5 on the 9, $6 on the 6, and $6 on the 8. Another example, suppose the point is 5 and you want to make Place bets on the 4, 9, and 10. Simply put $15 in the Come box and say, “Fifteen dollars outside, please.” The dealer knows that you want $5 each on the 4, 9, and 10. If you’re uncomfortable with this inside and outside stuff, simply put down your chips and say, “Place the four, five, nine, and ten,” instead of saying, “Twenty dollars outside.” Remember though, you want to sound like James Bond and impress that Victoria’s Secret model standing next to you. You appear more like James Bond when using cool-sounding lingo.
Think you’re ready to hang with James Bond? Let’s see if you’ve been paying attention. Suppose you make a Pass Line bet and the point is 6. You then drop some chips in the Come box and tell the dealer, “Sixteen dollars inside, please.” What bets are you telling the dealer you want to make? Wow, that’s right! Very good! Since the point is 6 and you have a Pass Line bet, you already have the 6 covered so you don’t want to make an additional bet on the number 6. Therefore, in this case, “$16 inside,” means you want Place bets for $5 on the 5, $6 on the 8, and $5 on the 9.
Let’s do one more to see if you’re truly worthy of hanging with James Bond. Suppose you walk up to a table in the middle of a game and drop some chips in the Come box and say, “Thirty-two across, please.” What does “$32 across” mean? Absolutely correct! Move over, James Bond, you’re a natural at this! The dealer knows you want Place bets on all the numbers, including the point, for $5 on the 4, $5 on the 5, $6 on the 6, $6 on the 8, $5 on the 9, and $5 on the 10. (That all adds up to $32.)
Let’s run through a scenario to make Place bets easy to understand. In this scenario, assume the table minimum bet is $5 and the maximum odds allowed are 10x. This scenario assumes you’ve learned the material in our other article about Pass Line bets.
1. A new shooter prepares to make a come-out roll for a new game. You make a $5 Flat Pass Line bet. The shooter rolls a 10; therefore, the point for this game is 10. You feel lucky, so you take a whopping $20 in Odds on the point behind the line.
2. After a point is established, the only numbers that matter for Pass Line bets are 7 and the point number. The shooter rolls a 4. The number 4 doesn’t matter, so the game continues.
3. You think, “Man, I want some more action. I’m going to try some Place bets.” When you have the dealer’s attention, you drop a $5 chip in the Come box and say, “Place the nine, please.” The dealer moves your chip to the 9 point box so its location corresponds to your Player Position.
4. The shooter rolls an 11. For both your Pass Line bet and Place bet, an 11 doesn’t matter. The game continues.
5. The table is packed and you stand shoulder-to-shoulder between two gorgeous women (or men). You think, “I’m going to show these babes just how good I am.” With the dealer’s attention, you drop $17 in chips in the Come box and say, “Give me the rest of the inside numbers, please.” Since you already have a Place bet on the 9, the dealer takes your chips and knows you want $5 on the 5, $6 on the 6, and $6 on the 8. You now have Place bets on the 5, 6, 8, and 9. Reminder, the point for this game is 10.
6. The shooter rolls a 6. Your Place bet on the 6 wins. Just before it’s your turn to be paid, you tell the dealer, “Same bet, please.” The dealer pays your winnings by placing $7 in chips in the apron directly in front of you. Pick up your winnings. Your Place bet on the 6 is still up and working.
7. The shooter rolls a 12. For your Pass Line bet and all your Place bets, a 12 doesn’t matter. The game continues.
8. The shooter rolls another 6. Wow! The 6 is getting hot! Your Place 6 bet wins again. This time, just before it’s your turn to be paid, you tell the dealer, “Press it.” The dealer knows you want to double your Place bet on the 6. He counts out your $7 in winnings, and then puts $6 of it on your original Place bet on the 6, and he puts the remaining $1 in the apron directly in front of you. Pick up the $1. Now, your Place bet on the 6 is up to $12 (remember, Place bets on the 6 and 8 should be in multiples of $6). Things are getting a bit more interesting, so you pay more attention to the game and less attention to the babe next to you in her halter top rubbing against you shoulder-to-shoulder.
9. The shooter rolls a 9. Your Place bet on the 9 wins. Just before it’s your turn to be paid, you tell the dealer, “Same bet, please.” The dealer puts $7 in chips in the apron directly in front of you. Pick up your winnings.
10. The shooter rolls a 10. “Winner, winner, chicken dinner!” You high-five everybody at that end of the table. The shooter rolled his point, so the game ends. The dealer pays you $5 for your Flat Pass Line bet and $40 for your Odds bet. Pick up all your Pass Line chips and winnings. Your Place bet chips remain on the table. You’re excited because you got one of those pretty green $25 chips as part of your winnings. The dealer turns the puck OFF and puts it on the side of the table.
11. A new game is about to start. Since this is the come-out roll for a new game, all of your Place bets are automatically considered off. You make a $5 Flat Pass Line bet. The shooter rolls a 7. The game ends immediately. For your Flat Pass Line bet, a 7 on the come-out is a winner, so the dealer puts a $5 chip next to your Flat Pass Line bet. Pick up your $5 in winnings. For all of your Place bets, the 7 doesn’t matter this time because your Place bets are automatically off on the come-out roll for a new game.
12. A new game is about to start. Your Place bets are still considered off because this is the come-out roll for a new game. The shooter rolls a 9; therefore, the point for this game is 9. You feel the table is getting hot, so you take $30 in Odds on the point behind the line. Since your Place bets were off on the come-out, you don’t win your Place bet on the 9 when the shooter rolled 9 as the new point. You still have a Place bet on the 9 (which is now the point for this new game), so the dealer asks, “Sir, what would you like to do with your nine?” You now already have the 9 covered by your Pass Line with Odds bets since 9 is the new point, so you don’t want to cover it again with a Place bet. Most players either take the Place bet down or move it to another number. In this example, since you feel the table is getting hot, you decide to move it to a Place bet on the 4. Now, you have five numbers working for you: Place bets on the 4, 5, 6, and 8; and the Pass Line with Odds bets on the point of 9.
13. The shooter rolls another 6. Woohoo! Your Place bet on the 6 wins again (remember, this bet is up to $12). Just before it’s your turn to be paid, you tell the dealer, “Same bet, please.” The dealer pays your winnings by placing $14 in chips in the apron directly in front of you. Pick up your winnings. Your Place bet on the 6 is still up and working.
14. The shooter rolls a 9. “Winner, winner, steak dinner!” You high-five everybody at that end of the table and the girl in the halter top gives you a big hug. The shooter rolled his point, so the game ends. The dealer pays you $5 for your Flat Pass Line bet and $45 for your Odds bet. While picking up all your chips, you shout, “Yeah, baby, I love these green chips!” The dealer turns the puck OFF and puts it on the side of the table.
15. A new game is about to start. You make a $5 Flat Pass Line bet. The table is on fire, so you decide to keep your Place bets working on the come-out roll. Normally, Place bets are considered off on the come-out, but you want them working because the shooter is rolling lots of numbers. You tell the dealer, “I want all my Place bets working on the come-out.” The dealer puts an ON button on one of your Place bets to indicate that they’re all on and working on the come‑out. The hot babe next to you says, “Sure you want to do that? We’re rooting for a seven on the come-out, so if you keep your Place bets working and a seven shows, you’ll lose all your Place bets.” You think, “Shut up and play your own game,” but you politely say, “The table is getting hot, so I’m going for it.”
16. The shooter rolls a 7 on the come-out. The game ends immediately. For your Flat Pass Line bet, a 7 on the come-out is a winner, so the dealer puts a $5 chip next to your Flat Pass Line bet. Pick up your $5 in winnings (leave your $5 Flat Pass Line bet there for the next game). Since you kept your Place bets on and working on the come-out, they all lose because a 7 showed. The dealer removes all your Place bets. You feel like crap, thinking, “Why did I keep my Place bets working? I’m so stupid.” The babe looks at you rolling her eyes with an I-told-you-so look.
17. A new game is about to start. The shooter rolls a 4 on the come-out; therefore, the point for this game is 4. You feel the table is still hot, so you take $30 in Odds on the point behind the line. You also drop $12 in chips in the Come box and tell the dealer, “Give me the six and eight, please.” The dealer takes your chips and puts $6 on the 6 and $6 on the 8. The shooter rolls and a die flies off the table. The stickman shouts, “No roll!” Uh, oh, this is bad luck. Every time you’ve seen a die fly off the table, a 7 shows on the next roll. You tell the dealer, “My Place bets are off.” The dealer puts an OFF button on top of one of your Place bets to indicate they’re both off. You also decide to pick up your Odds bet because you fear that dreaded 7 will show after a no-roll. (Remember, you can remove your Odds bet at any time, but can’t remove your Flat Pass Line bet.)
18. The shooter rolls a 12. Whew! It wasn’t a 7. This must mean the table is still hot, so you put back your $30 in Odds behind the line, and you tell the dealer, “My Place bets are back on.” The dealer removes the OFF button indicating that both your Place 6 and Place 8 bets are back on and working.
19. The shooter rolls a 4. The shooter made his point so the game ends. You jump up and down shouting, “Yeah, baby, that’s what I’m talking about! Give me some more of those pretty green chips!”
That was a lot to absorb all at once. You may want to go back and review it several times to get a good feel for how the action goes. It may seem a bit confusing at first, but it’ll all become second nature to you after a few minutes at the table. Don’t let it scare you into giving up on this great game! Take it slow until you get the hang of it. This is a great example of why it’s good to play a cheap $1 table at an online casino before hitting the live tables in Vegas. If you’re going to make mistakes when you’re first learning the game, it’s better to make them at a cheap $1 online table than at a $5 or $15 live table. Also, the cheap $1 online casino let’s you play at your own pace so you can take your time and know what you’re doing before doing it.
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Comments 6
There is very little left for comments. Anyone following this and understand each suggestion, will be on their way to become a decent Craps Player. One point I would like to make that has not been explained, as far as the Place Bet NOT paying correct odds. I look at Place Bets as better than a Come Bet and even as good as a Pass Line Bet.
A, for example, $5 5 or 9 pays $7 for a $5 Place Bet. I break it down as a $1 flat bet for even money (the Pass Line wager) and $4 Odds, which are paid Correct Odds. The $1 flat bet earns $1, the $4 “odds” bet earns $6 for a total of $7 for the $5 wager. It is the SAME if you wagered $1 on the Pass Line and $4 Odds for a payout of $7. You do not have the Come Out loss on a 2,3 or 12, or a even money win with the 7 or 11, but that is the “COST” to be able to play 4X Odds at a, lets say, a 2X maximum Odds table at some Casinos.
The small reward for a Front Line winner 7 or 11, or a Craps loss 2, 3 or 12 I consider a wash.
Playing at a 2X Odds Craps Table… the Place Bet delivers a 4X Odds option and the flat bet portion is not a Contract bet and can be taken down at any time, unlike the Pass Line contract wager.
Thanks for the comment. Sorry, but no matter how you twist and turn the numbers, you can’t make them into something they’re not. Numbers and math are fact; they’re truth. The mathematical fact in this case is that the Don’t Pass and Pass with Odds bets have the lowest house advantage of all bets on the craps table. The Pass Line with single Odds has a house advantage of only 0.85% (that’s less than 1%). The Place bet on the 6 or 8 has a house advantage of 1.52%. The Place bet on the 5 or 9 has a house advantage of 4%. No amount of theorizing, rationalization, or manipulation of the numbers will ever change that fact. The Come bet is simply a Pass Line bet made after a point has been established. The mathematical fact is that if you play only the Pass Line with Odds (or Come with Odds) over a long period of time, you’ll lose about 9 cents (i.e., 8.5 cents rounded up) for every $10 you bet; and if you play only the Place 6 or 8 over a long period of time, you’ll lose about 15 cents for every $10 you bet; and if you play only the Place 5 or 9 over a long period of time, you’ll lose about 40 cents for every $10 you bet. For the 5 and 9, when your bet amount gets big enough such that the house allows it (i.e., usually $24), you should switch to a Buy bet to reduce the house advantage down to 1.96% when you pay the vig after a winning bet. That is, instead of Placing the 5 or 9 for $25, you should Buy the 5 or 9 for $24. (Refer to our other article that explains why this is true: https://www.crapspit.org/buy-5-9-instead-placing/ ) But even with a Buy bet on the 5 or 9, it still has a higher house advantage than the Pass (or Come) with Odds. Again, no matter how logical your complex breakdown might seem, the mathematical fact is that the Place bet will never be better than the Pass and Don’t Pass bets (or Come and Don’t Come) in terms of house advantage. Don’t feel bad, you’re certainly not the only person in the last 100 years who’s tried to analyze the numbers in the game of craps and come up with their own mathematical rationalization (i.e., trying to make something sound reasonable but just isn’t true). Trust and believe the math. Do not view Place bets as “better” than Come or Pass Line with Odds bets in terms of house advantage.
Could you chart both side by side for an easier comparison and use $25 (5/9) & $30 (6/8) wagers on the Place Bet side, and… Buy Bets, paying a $1 vig after a winning bet?
Thank you- SevenOut
SevenOut, thank you for your follow-up comment, but we’re unsure of exactly what you’re asking us to chart. If you’re looking for a table of house advantages for Place Bets, Buy bets, and Pass Line with Odds bets at specific bet amounts, it’s an inconsequential comparison because the house advantages don’t change with the bet amounts.
For the 5 or 9 Place bet, it doesn’t matter whether you bet $5 or $25, the house advantage is still 4%. For the 6 or 8 Place bet, it doesn’t matter whether you bet $6 or $30, the house advantage is still 1.52%. For the Pass Line with single Odds, it doesn’t matter whether you bet $5 on the Pass Line with $5 Odds or bet $25 on the Pass Line with $25 Odds, the house advantage is still 0.85%. The only difference is, the more you bet, the more you should expect to lose over time based on the house advantages.
For example, for every $10 that you bet on the Place 5 or 9 over a long period of time, you’re going to lose 40 cents. That means, for example, if your total bet amount on the Place 5 or 9 over the long term is $100, you can expect a loss of $4.00 (4% of $100 = $4). If your total bet amount over the long term is $1,000, you can expect a loss of $40 (4% of $1,000 = $40). If your total bet amount over the long term is $10,000, you can expect a loss of $400 (4% of $10,000 = $400). Regardless of the bet amount for your individual Place 5 or 9 bets, you can expect to lose 4% of the total bet amount over the long term. Therefore, a table that compares house advantages for certain bet amounts (e.g., $25 and $30 wagers as stated in your follow-up response) is of little or no value.
We’ve already provided a table of house advantages in our other article entitled, Which Bets are Good and Which Bets are Bad? ( https://www.crapspit.org/good-bad-craps-bets/ ) That article also provides a detailed explanation, with the math, for calculating the house advantage using the basic Pass Line bet as an example. The table in that article gives you a quick-and-easy look at the house advantages for the most common craps bets, and even provides our opinion on whether a particular bet is “good,” “maybe,” or “bad” based on the house advantages. That’s all you need to know if you’re looking for the smartest bets based on house advantages. You can’t change those house advantages with any sort of rationalization, varying bet amounts, or complex betting schemes. If you’re not a math person and this concept is difficult to understand (which is okay because a lot of non-math people don’t fully comprehend it), you’ll just have to trust us that the house advantages don’t change based on your individual bet amounts. Craps is not an artsy game, it’s a mathematical game.
Unlike the world of art where individual preference affects a person’s perception, the world of craps is entirely mathematical and constant. For example, unless you change the rules or cheat, there’s no way to change the house advantage for a Place bet on the 5 or 9. Whether you bet $5, or $25, or $500, the house advantage for that bet 4%. If you don’t trust the house advantages in our table, then you’re encouraged to calculate them yourself using the process described in our other article. And if you don’t want to take the time to do the math yourself, you’re welcome to visit other reputable craps-related websites (the keyword is “reputable”), such as the “Wizard of Odds,” ( http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/ ) which we believe is a trustworthy site that doesn’t feed you a load of crap about craps.
In summary, since we’re unsure of exactly what you’re asking in your follow-up response, we assume it’s a simple question, “What’s the house advantage for the Place bets and Buy bets on 5, 6, 8, and 9, and for the Pass Line with Odds?” The answer is provided in the table found in our other article, Which Bets are Good and Which Bets are Bad? https://www.crapspit.org/good-bad-craps-bets/
Thank you. Understanding the math would discourage anyone considering walking into any Casino and playing any of the House Advantage loaded options. The buffets become the best deal in Las Vegas. And that is it. Maybe rooms and the great shows on the Strip.
I will keep reading through the website. IF Craps players depended on the statistical long term percentages, no one would care to play any Casino table game. I play for the random rolls outside of the statistical norm. I play the Pass Line with Odds and if it is an inside Pass Line point, the inside with Place Bets. I understand that the House gets a cut on most “winnings”. That is the cost of playing.
My System plays the short term for those rolls that do not conform to the mathematics and the 1,000,000 roll statistics. I am not a statistical player, but wagering on those rolls for the short term. Place Bets are my choice. Odds bets are maybe the best wager on the Pass Line, but I find my concept of the Place Bet the next best option for a Right Side bettor.
If I were to use John Scarne’s advice… Do Not Play any Casino Game with the regressive payouts to correct odds.
I am a hit and run, short game player. Take my wins or minimize my losses and leave the table. Mathematics and Statistics has no answer to how to win, only how the Casino charges you for each win and takes it all on a loss.
I am not a long term player. The mathematics and statistical percentages are not in my favor with any time at the table. It sure beats playing Lotto and Scratch Tickets… this we will agree upon. The House Advantage is my cost to cover overhead. This we probably will agree. The rest… it all up to when you quit.
I agree with your ideas, it seems to me all the talk about vigorish when it comes to craps is irrelevant in the time frame of a few hours. People talk about losing 10 cents for every dollar blah blah blah. The trick is to play numbers that have a high probability of showing up…like a 6 and not so much a 12…getting lucky and parlaying something quick before your bankroll disappears. What are your thoughts on pressing the field bet? Comes in streaks sometime…16 ways to win 20 to lose…triple pay on the 12.