# Does the Place Bet in Craps pay more?

Hi, Jeff, thanks for your post.

We don’t think we correctly understand your question, but we’ll give it a try. Let’s break down your post and address it in pieces, and maybe that will give you the info you’re looking for.

Your statement, “…if you play the odds in craps you should never bet less than five times odds because you will get paid more on a place bet of the same amount. For example, I was told that a Place bet of \$30 on a 6 or 8 pays \$35, while an odds bet of \$25 pays \$35 also including the flat bet.” Jeff, your second sentence contradicts your first sentence. In both cases, the total bet amount is \$30 and the total win amount is \$35, so the \$30 Place bet doesn’t “pay more” than the \$5 Pass Line with 5x Odds (your first sentence states the Place bet pays more, while your second sentence states they both pay the same). So, we’re confused about what you’re stating. Let’s look at the 6 and 8. For a \$5 Pass Line bet plus \$25 Odds (5x odds), you win \$5 for the \$5 flat bet and you win \$30 for the Odds bet (total win = \$35); and a \$30 Place bet wins \$35 (total win = \$35). Therefore, in this case when both total bet amounts are \$30 and both net win amounts are \$35, your statement, “…you will get paid more on a Place bet of the same amount,” is false.

Assuming your Odds bets and Place bets are made according to their payoff odds (i.e., for the 6 and 8, the Odds bet should be a multiple of 5, and the Place bet should be a multiple of 6), the comparison is as follows:

• (1x odds) \$5 Pass Line with \$5 Odds = \$10 total bet amount = \$11 total bet win.
• (2x odds) \$5 Pass Line with \$10 Odds = \$15 total bet amount = \$17 total bet win.
• (3x odds) \$5 Pass Line with \$15 Odds = \$20 total bet amount = \$23 total bet win.
• (4x odds) \$5 Pass Line with \$20 Odds = \$25 total bet amount =\$29 total bet win.
• (5x odds) \$5 Pass Line with \$25 Odds = \$30 total bet amount = \$35 total bet win.
• \$6 Place bet = \$6 total bet amount = \$7 total bet win.
• \$12 Place bet = \$12 total bet amount = \$14 total bet win.
• \$18 Place be t= \$18 total bet amount = \$21 total bet win.
• \$24 Place bet = \$24 total bet amount = \$28 total bet win.
• \$30 Place bet = \$30 total bet amount = \$35 total bet win.

Based strictly on what you wrote, you’re not comparing apples to apples. First of all, the amounts risked and won for the two bets aren’t the “same amount.” For example, for a Pass with 2x Odds bet, you risk \$15 to win \$17; whereas, for a Place bet, you risk \$12 to win \$14. None of those numbers are the “same amount.” Secondly, it seems that you’re ignoring the money you win on a Pass Line bet when naturals appear (there are 8 ways to win versus 4 ways to lose on the come-out roll). Therefore, your statement, “…never bet less than five times odds because you will get paid more on a Place bet of the same amount,” is fundamentally flawed. You can make close comparisons, but they’re not equal apples-to-apples comparisons, and you can’t ignore your winnings for the Pass Line when naturals appear on the come-out.

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Your friend’s theory is a little more convincing (but still flawed) when considering the 4 and 10. Assuming your Odds bets and Place bets are made according to their payoff odds (i.e., for the 4 and 10, the Place bet should be a multiple of 5 and let’s assume, for comparison purposes, that your Odds bet is also a multiple of 5), the comparison is as follows:

• (1x odds) \$5 Pass Line with \$5 Odds = \$10 total bet amount = \$15 total bet win.
• (2x odds) \$5 Pass Line with \$10 Odds = \$15 total bet amount = \$25 total bet win..
• (3x odds) \$5 Pass Line with \$15 Odds = \$20 total bet amount = \$35 total bet win.
• (4x odds) \$5 Pass Line with \$20 Odds = \$25 total bet amount =\$45 total bet win.
• (5x odds) \$5 Pass Line with \$25 Odds = \$30 total bet amount = \$55 total bet win.
• \$5 Place bet = \$5 total bet amount = \$9 total bet win.
• xxxxx.
• \$10 Place bet = \$10 total bet amount = \$18 total bet win.
• \$15 Place be t= \$15 total bet amount = \$27 total bet win.
• \$20 Place bet = \$20 total bet amount = \$36 total bet win.
• \$25 Place bet = \$25 total bet amount = \$45 total bet win.

In this case, it appears from looking at the numbers above that your friend’s theory has some merit. For example, for a Pass with 2x Odds, you risk \$15 to win \$25; whereas, for a Place bet, you risk \$15 to win \$27. However, once again, the theory ignores the winnings for the Pass Line when naturals appear on the come-out. You can’t disregard those winnings when making the comparison.

Your statement, “I do like the added benefit of hitting a seven or eleven while going up but is it really a benefit when the 7 wipes you out.” We assume you’re talking about a come-out roll and Odds bets that are made with a Pass Line bet. On the come-out roll, the Pass Line doesn’t have any Odds yet because a point has not yet been established (you take Odds on the point after the come-out roll when a point has been established). Remember, there are 8 ways to win the flat Pass Line versus only 4 ways to lose, so the flat Pass Line bet on the come-out roll is a good thing. On the come-out, the 7 and 11 are winners, so a 7 can’t “wipe you out” on the Pass Line because you haven’t taken Odds yet. In terms of the Place bet, if you have Place bets on the table and the shooter makes the point, the Place bets are then generally off on the subsequent come-out roll (i.e., most casinos automatically call Place bets off on the come-out roll unless you specifically tell them your Place bets are on and working on the come-out). So, with Place bets, a 7 on the come-out roll doesn’t “wipe you out” either unless you’ve told the casino to turn your Place bets on and working on the come-out roll. So, in both cases on a come-out roll, a 7 doesn’t “wipe you out.” Then, after the come-out roll when a point has been established, a 7 will, indeed, “wipe you out” for both the Pass Line with Odds bet and the Place bet. But your statement seems to focus on the come-out roll, so we’re confused. Then, we get confused even more with your sentence, “I understand that you get the added benefit of winning on the come bet while making the bet through the come this way…,” which sounds like you’ve switched gears in mid-stream to talk about Come bets and their odds.

Next, we don’t understand your statement, “Since I have to hit the 6 or 8 twice to get the same payoff as a Place bet….” We can’t address that statement because we just don’t understand it at all as it makes no mathematical sense. You’re welcome to clarify your post and then we’ll try again to address it.

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the clarification. Now it makes sense and we understand your question.